I will be building a Pentium 4 system. What would you recommend in terms of these products and why:

- What speed Pentium 4? OEM or Retail?
- What cooler?
- What case?
- What power supply? Does it come with the case?
- What motherboard?
- How much memory? 128MB or 256mb?

Any help would be appreciated.

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ActiveTuning - Partner & Director Of Sales & Marketing

It's appears that there is no interest in this overpriced
low performance (vrs AMD) CPU.

Don't get me wrong, Intel is a great company. It's just
that they made a mistake with this CPU and their about to
make another by introducing a DRAM version this month.

Bad + Bad = good??? I don't think so.

I like Intel; have several systems based upon Intel.
The PIII kind.

Also have several AMD based systems.

I built a P4 for a guy and then ran test against an AMD
AXIA 1.2 FSB 266. The AMD beat the pants off the P4.

Why waste dollars on such a system?

Rant over.

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Serious Soldier

I stuck with Intel and built P4 because of the stability. I'm not a tweaker\overclocker so I don't need anything that facilitates doing such. What I do rely on is stability. I don't need tweaked reg files to enable features like SBA, AGP 2x\4X or even fastwrites. Or the complications that come with them. As I said in another thread, If we could get AMD and Intel to work together to make an Intel chipset for AMD procs, we'd be in great shape. But when I'm the one who has to support the PC's I use personally, or those I build, I'd just as soon build one as UNoverclockable and stable as can be. As we all know, a benchmark can tell you anything thing your looking for. AMD's are "Ferrari" CPU's , it's just to bad that they are strapped to a "Yugo" Chipset. As I said, when I'M the one footing the payroll for support calls, I'll opt for simplicity and stability with out having to route a customer through which version of which patch to download. Or worse, a house call do it for them. You'd QUICKLY eat up the difference in the cost difference between the two platforms. My 2 cents. A Lot of people come down hard on Intel for one reason or another. But when it come to economics, more has to be taken into account than just the price of a CPU.

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Currently running P4 1.4 on an Intel D850GB, 256MB, KyroII, SBLive, Sony CPD520 and Wife\Daughters computer is PIII800 on an Intel VC820, 128MB, KyroII, SBLive.

Stability is not an issue anymore with AMD cpu's.

Price and performance is what Intel is worrying about now,
thus the reason the P4 hasn't proved to be the goldmine
Intel thought it would be.

Since AMD and VIA improved there products, it's just as easy
to install an AMD based motherboard and cpu as an Intel
setup.

Now, the big difference is price. Performance and stability
goes to AMD; Intel does have good stability, don't get me wrong.

I'll take the Porche over the Chevy any day.

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Serious Soldier

The only thing that I dislike about Athlon based systems are the following:

Lack of an on-die thermal diode (yes, Palomino now has it, but only one board takes advantage of it, so far). This means that temperature readings on AMD based boards have been, are, and will be both inaccurate, and imprecise until they start using the Palominos diode. This has a few consequences:

• Temperature readings between motherboards on an Athlon system aren't comparable (they are with Intel boards).
• Because they're imprecise, there can sometimes be a danger of running too hot even though the value being read is within thermal specs (90C for most Athlons, 95C for some).
• Athlons can burn themselves up.

Of course, all those should eventually dissappear, but not quickly enough (IMO).

While the whole P4 throttling debacle a few weeks ago is annoying, I would prefer to have it! Heck, if my fan stops, and I don't know it (well, I would, my fans are too loud ), I'd like for my CPU to save its own hide and not die on me just because of a mechanical failure.

And for anyone who thinks I'm too biased towards Intel, I have an Intel machine under my desk, a T-bird under it, and an old work-horse Cyrix that I used for a number of years

AMD is a great CPU. That has been proven over and over. The problem is with the INFAMOUS (I don't know of a tech that can refute that one) VIA AGP implementaion. To say that all of VIA products have improved is misleading. They may have added more speed and features but that's useless if they don't allow a video card to perform the way IT was designed. AMD has made tremendous strides and I'm VERY glad the have. I just wish they had another company that could supply a more dependable chipset than VIA. Peruse any video card or mainboard forum a read the tremendous amount of problems experienced with their chipsets. I am by NO means running AMD down. This is strictly a concern with VIA chipsets. Their AGP problems are getting a bit long in the tooth. And in todays performance 3d market, that a MAJOR draw back IMHO. We are now drawing more processing power through the AGP bus. And the more we pull the more VIA chipsets show their flaws. Like I said, We're putting Porsche processors on a Yugo mainboard. Intel and AMD will continue to change the lead in CPU performance for years to come, that's without doubt. ANd people will continue to argue who's best, without a doubt. Without a doubt AMD performance has surpassed Intel. But in NO way has VIA come close. All I'm saying, is that for my money I'm going to use a board based on an Intel Chipset. These days, unfortunately, that means going with an Intel Processor. IF (and that's a big IF) Intel produces a chipset for AMD boards, or AMD produces a CPU for Intel boards then I'll be quite pleased to use AMD. They are cheaper, dependable and better performing. But all the performance in the world doesn't make a lick of difference if the AGP Chipset s choking your video card. Hence, the Porsche CPU on a Yugo mainboard. It's the VIA chipset I refuse to use. Not AMD. I'm curious to know just how many versions the 4 in 1 driver has gone through just to patch the flaws in their chipset design. When the flaw is in hardware, it's VERY hard to patch it with software without disabling features. Which they have done in the past. When I was looking to build my new PC, the prices between Intel and AMD weren't even noticeable. So price isn't even an issue anymore. AMD has performance edge for the time being. Right now the AMD 1.4 Gig is $162, the P4 is $166. A $4 savings isn't worth the trouble I'm likely to encounter with a VIA chipset. A $128MB stick of 2100 DDR is $22, 128 stick of RDRAM $55. So we're talking a total of $37 to go with the Intel over AMD. I have assembled and sold VIA systems (regardless of CPU) when a customer requests it. I'm not building systems to set world speed records, I'm building the most dependable systems I can. If we were talking a $200 difference, then I MAY start getting cozy with VIA. But that's what its going to take to get me to use VIA as a standard in mainboards. It's going to have to have one HECK of a price advantage. And as of now, that advantage is not there. At least not for my money, be it personal, or that which I would lose from customer with a poor performing CPU. When it comes down to it, most customers will never mention their problem to me, they'll just by from someone else. And when they do, I REALLY don't want to have to drive 50 Miles to install 4 in 1 drivers and registry hacks. There went the $37 price advantage. Along with my profit and reputation. I went through a spell when I pushed VIA chips. That won't happen again until AGP problem disappear.

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Currently running P4 1.4 on an Intel D850GB, 256MB, KyroII, SBLive, Sony CPD520 and Wife\Daughters computer is PIII800 on an Intel VC820, 128MB, KyroII, SBLive.

If one of mine stopped I'd never know if Intels Active Monitor software didn't tell me. I tested it by unplugging a case fan. The D850GB throttles the case fans when the temp needs it. I hear the slight whir of the PS fan (and It's supposedly a smart fan) but thats it. But I really don't run high volume fans so I don't have the noise level to judge by. I would almost feel safer WITH a higher volume fan. Just a ThermalTake ORB and a Sunon rear case fan. I even ran it for a week with the cover off so I could SEE the fan come on because I was worried. I haven't seen my CPU go above 101F yet (even minimized Unreal Tournament to take a quick peak). The P4 runs alot cooler than my daughters PIII 800 FlipChip. Once I felt safe with the throttling fans, the case went on and I never looked back. I run the Intel software just for safety. And these new IBM harddrives are the unbelievably quite.If I disable the PS fan, I'd be silent. It's worrisome the first week or so. It used to be that quiet was BAD.

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Currently running P4 1.4 on an Intel D850GB, 256MB, KyroII, SBLive, Sony CPD520 and Wife\Daughters computer is PIII800 on an Intel VC820, 128MB, KyroII, SBLive.

I agree that its "safter" with a louder fan, but I don't like them that way. The P4 runs way hotter than P3's, it's a simple fact....maybe different class heatsinks?

But my point was the thermal throttling that the P4 does -- where in worst case scenerio, where the CPU is over heating, the chip itself will automatically "throttle back" the CPU speed so that it can cool down and not burn up. I'm enthusiastic about that feature. Best case scenerio (for keeping your CPU alive) would to have both throttling of the CPU itself (like the P4 has), and having a loud fan, which if it dies, you'd notice. I have the latter, I'd like to have the former too

Both the P4 and P3 run the same style ORB from thermaltake. Maybe it has more to do with the vast cooling surface on a P4 compmared to the relatively smal surface on e PIII FlipChip. Both here are in the same case model (Enlight 7237) and same case cooling (A rear mounted sunon blowing out. My P4 Idles at 84F, the PIII800 idles at 92F. And her case fan runs 100% of the time. But even the PIII500 SECC ran hotter than this P4. Specs may show something different, but that's what happening here.

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Currently running P4 1.4 on an Intel D850GB, 256MB, KyroII, SBLive, Sony CPD520 and Wife\Daughters computer is PIII800 on an Intel VC820, 128MB, KyroII, SBLive.

The P4 is fine for normal stuff. It runs well enough, and does everything.

I personally would pick an athlon right now as pricepoint wise, it beats the fucking pants offa everythign else.

But to answer some questions:

P4:

1.4-1.5 right now is about the best $/speed 1.3 is ok, too

heatsink, this one's cool looking: http://2cooltek.safeshopper.com/21/231.htm?674

case: I'd pick an Addtronics 6890 or 6896 if you want a large mid tower, 789X if you want big ass full towers. They're built like tanks

RAM? If you get a good price, 256, if not, grab 128 and see if it drops some more

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HAHAHA, Work's fun.
Then you put in 65 hours in 5 days. What the hell was I thinking?

I agree with you that the Via chipset is not the best solution for the AMD cpu. However, its not the only chipset being made for AMD.
AMD itself has the AMD 761 and AliMagic has introduced a
chipset as well.

I've installed all three and found the AMD 761 to be stable.
Second would be the Ali chipset and dead last is Via.

I went through the early days of installing Via 4 in 1 drivers
and all the headaces that went with it. It seems that Via
has come along way in this department. The install is
much smoother now, but still not perfect. You have to
enable DMA and set your AGP to fast writes in order
to recieve the full benefit of you system hardware.

I haven't found my AGP 4X cards to suffer due to an improper install of the chipset drivers. Also noteworthy: a newcomer
should not attempt to install or setup a system with the via
chipset. To this end, VIA needs to rethink there install routine
and make it even more user friendly.

Example of newcomer: I guy ask me the other day if he bought
a case does it come with the floppy disk installed and how
should he connect the power supply to the motherboard.

P4 are getting better in price, but the performance will never
be there. If you want a super stable, don't worry about overheating and don't OC, then a P4 would be the way to go.

On the other hand, if you want the best performance, have a good working knowledge of PC's, want to OC and understand
how to build a system, then the AMD is the route.
I build and test many AMD based systems for customers that live way far away (Hawaii is an example). Once I'm satisfied that the system is performing as it should, I make a ghost image of the
complete system. I also write an instruction sheet on how to
update the ghost image and how to restore from a bad crash.

Since I've done this, my After Service (A/S) calls have gone to almost nil. Most A/S problems aren't because of the Via 4 in 1 driver problem. I solve that before the system ships. The problems come into play when the customer tries to do something to the operating system by changing the CMOS or
hardware settings. No way to get around this.

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Serious Soldier