I recently chipped the core of my new Duron 650 and am looking into getting copper shim for the next cpu I get. I have seen some good reviews for these things, but do they really work? Do I really need it, or am I just not being careful enough installing the heatsink?

By "do they work", I assume you mean do they make sure that you don't screw up the installation of your CPU....yes. That's all they do. These things could be plastic and they'd still cool just as well (assuming the plastic didn't melt :P ). The fact that it's copper does NOTHING for cooling, and don't let people tell you otherwise.

EDIT - I personally would get one, if I were to be assembling a new system (and I am )

I completely agree with Paul that I haven't seen anything to make me think that they're a cooling necessity, just add a little more comfort and security against a screw-up.

__________________
Aaron Dahlen - Gaming Editor
aaron@slcentral.com
SLCentral - Your logical choice for computing and technology
http://www.slcentral.com

Athlon XP 1800+ ... K7V DRAGON Plus ... 256 MB PC2100 ... GeForce3 PowerPack !!! ... Sound Blaster Audigy ... IBM 60GXP 40 GB ... Samsung SyncMaster 950p ... Windows XP Home

I'll add my vote to the previous two. No cooling benefit, if you were looking for that, but it should help prevent damage to your core.

ok here is what i have read and this is what i think
http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/...er_Shims_1.html

here is an article to check out ... the one thing that i would notice out of any thing else is the thickness that is recorded .... now the other thing to remember is that the thinner a shim is the more of a chance that it might shift after install( don't want that), and another thing is to look at the design of a shim ... are they taking in to mind that this might move during install and is there enough clearance around critical spots .... so here is the thought ... when looking for shims,... don't buy something because someone said to,... do some research on it ....

__________________
~Jon~
if you have to stop and wonder then you have already lost

i don't use shims
I don't trust shims
I will never use shims.

Seen/heard too many problems with them. One friend of mine (who shall remain nameless to protect him from unnecessary punishment on the boards here) tried one once on his TBird 850. Well, the shim did protect the core from HSF damage. But He did manage to put a NICE scorch mark on the TBird since the HSF WASN"T touching the core at ALL! (oops)

It turned out the shim was slightly too thick for the core so it wouldn't work, ergo I don't trust them.

(granted there are ways around this, but I won't use them anyways)

__________________
HAHAHA, Work's fun.
Then you put in 65 hours in 5 days. What the hell was I thinking?

Hmm, well I'm not sure if I trust any of the copper shims on their claim of added cooling... because as I understand it the core is the only thing that's extremely hot, the pcb around it isn't. So, if the heatsink were hotter than the pcb, wouldn't the heat flow from the heatsink into the pcb region? This would add more heat to the chip... I'm not really sure on that though. The non conductive shims seem like a better idea. It keeps the heat flow out from the chip instead of adding an outlet to go back.

I'm currently using two non conductive "cool" shims from coolerguys.com they seem to be working ok. I didn't measure them completely but it seems they are a good fit, not too high, not too low. However, the temp of one of my chips is now a little higher than the other. It might be that one of the shims is a little higher than the other one... I'm not completely sure. I guess I just want to keep from too much vibration and pressure on the core, but I'd rather not sacrifice cooling.

__________________
SystemLogic.net - Editor

2 Pentium III 1 Ghz 2 Alpha HeatSinks with 38 CFM Delta Fan | Abit VP6 | 512 MB PC-166 | Antec SX1030B with 4 High Output 80mm Sunon Fans | 2 30 GB IBm 75 Drives in RAID 0 | Plextor PlexWriter 16/10/40A | Mitsumi 40x CD-ROM | Generic 3.5" Floppy Drive | VisionTek Geforce 2 GTS 32 MB | Sound Blaster Live! Value | 3com NIC | Diamond Supra Modem | 19" Sony Monitor | Klipsch Promedia V.2-400 Speakers | PcMods.com Sound Sensitive Blue

"No more yankie my wankie. The Donger need food!"

More people are killed annually by donkeys than die in air crashes.

and newer information is now showing it actually hurts cooling on some heatsinks like the Thermoengine

the different design impedes airflow with a shim and it runs hotter than without.

__________________
HAHAHA, Work's fun.
Then you put in 65 hours in 5 days. What the hell was I thinking?

Yeah, this is what I'd think as well. With a normal HSF on an Athlon, the sides of the core are still exposed so that they can leak out heat, and also air can flow around the sides. When you put a shim on a CPU, you're actually creating a nearly air-tight pocket that the core is sitting in, causing the heat to go up in most circumstances.

Due to this property, I'd actually prefer a conductive shim to a nonconductive shim, as it'd actually help to cool the inner air pocket (Although not by much).

__________________
"And knowing is half the battle!"

i hate it when this happens....

I just bought a shim the other day. for reason, a new heat sink I'm going to test, comes in at nearly 400 grams, AKA close to 1 pound, and REALLY heavy. (yay for copper)

i don't trust the beast on the core without help.

just me, tho

__________________
HAHAHA, Work's fun.
Then you put in 65 hours in 5 days. What the hell was I thinking?

What happened to the I don't trust them.

Just joking, I see your point with 400 grams of weight.

I still don't trust them that well

but I'm also careful enough to quadruple check that it goes on right with afformentioned shim....

__________________
HAHAHA, Work's fun.
Then you put in 65 hours in 5 days. What the hell was I thinking?

Hehe.....say cheese......

__________________
Serious Soldier

Gouda!

__________________
HAHAHA, Work's fun.
Then you put in 65 hours in 5 days. What the hell was I thinking?

Ive tested the thermal issue with the shims and there is an issue.

Using a CompuNurse thermal probe on the ceramic of the CPU (top side) I was getting a reading of 52 degrees.

Once the shim was installed, the CompuNurse shot up to 64.6 degrees yet the machine is perfectly stable (without the shim, the computer would become unstable at 61 C).

Reason?

The heat is being pulled up off of the die and then the shim is pulling the heat back down to the ceramic.

Yes, heat rises, but the shim acts as part of the base, and the base will begin to saturate with heat before the heat begins to rise up the sinks.

Is it all bad? No. Ceramic is MADE to get hot. Ceramic is on the belly of the space shuttle for God's sake. But for those who wanted to know if the shims draw the heat back down to the CPU... the answer is yes.

__________________
Hey. What kind of party is this? There's no booze and only one hooker. -- Bender (Futurama)